================================
AllanKatzMay 13, 2014 at 6:48 PM
Can JOE be more specific as to the aveiros the therapists are validating. Validating usually means acknowledging/ empathic understanding for a problem or a solution to the problem , but not that it is acceptable or the long lasting solution we want
Allan,
That's a tall order. I intended my comment for those who have independently arrived at the same conclusion as I have. I'm not sure if I can successfully clarify my comment for others. Also, if I mention a specific case, even with hiding the identity and changing details, someone who knows me may figure out who I am referring to.
That being said, may I have your permission to build a hypothetical case? For example, let's take a teenage girl in a day school that bills itself as Modern. Let's call her "B.Y." for Bas Yisrael. I am making this up in a way that is consistent with the kinds of outcomes I've encountered. Correct at will.
B.Y. [sitting in therapist's office]: Uh, so...how do we start?
Therapist: Why don't you tell me what brought you here.
B.Y. [vehemently]: My parents! [almost spitting out the words] They forced me.
Therapist: [raising eyebrows slightly, look of intent concentration]
B.Y.: So it started out fine. I invited him to come to my house to do homework.
Therapist: Him?
B.Y.: Didn't my parents tell you ANYTHING?! My boyfriend...only he wasn't my boyfriend then. Just a classmate. We had a project due, and the teacher put us on the same team, so I said, 'Let's work on it at my house' and my parents were like, "OK."
Therapist: I'm sensing anger.
B.Y.: I AM angry. A few months before my parents had sat me down and we had a talk. They treated me with respect, answered all my questions -- I felt... [pauses]
Therapist: Yes?
B.Y.: ...I felt, you know, empowered! They were so sensitive and polite. We'd never had a conversation like that before.
Therapist: Do you want to tell me what you spoke about?
B.Y.: It was a candid and honest talk [voice drops to a whisper] about sex.
Therapist: Oh.
B.Y. [sparks flying] They said they TRUSTED me! They told me I was now expected to take on RESPONSIBILITY for my decisions!! [starts crying]
Therapist: [after a time, gently, not prying, almost like wondering to himself] Anything else?
B.Y.: [now composed] So, last week I told my parents that I wanted the same boy to work with me on some homework, and they said "No."
Therapist: [repeating] 'They said 'No.'"
B.Y.: "No." [catching herself] I mean, yes, they said "No." [Drawing out the words] So I said, "Why in the world did you talk to me about relationships if you didn't want me to have a relationship??" [puffing out cheeks, pouting, folding arms, withdrawing into herself]
Therapist: [silent]
B.Y. [after a long time of staring into nowhere, quietly, in a low monotone] The answer was they were trying to "prevent" me from having a relationship. [clams up again]
Therapist: So first they communicated with you in a way you understood to mean you had permission to have a boyfriend, while their intention was the opposite.
B.Y.: Oh, no. They DEFINITELY were signaling that they were willing to allow sex at home. I KNOW that because I found a link on their computer to an article that used the E X A CT same language they used in our original talk. Stuff like, "need not be a green light for promiscuity but can be a red light for undeclared, unpredictable, unsafe activity." They just changed their mind later when they were faced with the reality.
Therapist: Ah.
B.Y. [suddenly, looking up questioningly]: Do you you think that was right of them to act that way?
Now, Allan, I put it to you: what can the therapist possibly respond that is both professional and that will absolutely preclude the possibility of B.Y. saying to her friends: "My therapist says it's OK to have a boyfriend"?
That's a tall order. I intended my comment for those who have independently arrived at the same conclusion as I have. I'm not sure if I can successfully clarify my comment for others. Also, if I mention a specific case, even with hiding the identity and changing details, someone who knows me may figure out who I am referring to.
That being said, may I have your permission to build a hypothetical case? For example, let's take a teenage girl in a day school that bills itself as Modern. Let's call her "B.Y." for Bas Yisrael. I am making this up in a way that is consistent with the kinds of outcomes I've encountered. Correct at will.
B.Y. [sitting in therapist's office]: Uh, so...how do we start?
Therapist: Why don't you tell me what brought you here.
B.Y. [vehemently]: My parents! [almost spitting out the words] They forced me.
Therapist: [raising eyebrows slightly, look of intent concentration]
B.Y.: So it started out fine. I invited him to come to my house to do homework.
Therapist: Him?
B.Y.: Didn't my parents tell you ANYTHING?! My boyfriend...only he wasn't my boyfriend then. Just a classmate. We had a project due, and the teacher put us on the same team, so I said, 'Let's work on it at my house' and my parents were like, "OK."
Therapist: I'm sensing anger.
B.Y.: I AM angry. A few months before my parents had sat me down and we had a talk. They treated me with respect, answered all my questions -- I felt... [pauses]
Therapist: Yes?
B.Y.: ...I felt, you know, empowered! They were so sensitive and polite. We'd never had a conversation like that before.
Therapist: Do you want to tell me what you spoke about?
B.Y.: It was a candid and honest talk [voice drops to a whisper] about sex.
Therapist: Oh.
B.Y. [sparks flying] They said they TRUSTED me! They told me I was now expected to take on RESPONSIBILITY for my decisions!! [starts crying]
Therapist: [after a time, gently, not prying, almost like wondering to himself] Anything else?
B.Y.: [now composed] So, last week I told my parents that I wanted the same boy to work with me on some homework, and they said "No."
Therapist: [repeating] 'They said 'No.'"
B.Y.: "No." [catching herself] I mean, yes, they said "No." [Drawing out the words] So I said, "Why in the world did you talk to me about relationships if you didn't want me to have a relationship??" [puffing out cheeks, pouting, folding arms, withdrawing into herself]
Therapist: [silent]
B.Y. [after a long time of staring into nowhere, quietly, in a low monotone] The answer was they were trying to "prevent" me from having a relationship. [clams up again]
Therapist: So first they communicated with you in a way you understood to mean you had permission to have a boyfriend, while their intention was the opposite.
B.Y.: Oh, no. They DEFINITELY were signaling that they were willing to allow sex at home. I KNOW that because I found a link on their computer to an article that used the E X A CT same language they used in our original talk. Stuff like, "need not be a green light for promiscuity but can be a red light for undeclared, unpredictable, unsafe activity." They just changed their mind later when they were faced with the reality.
Therapist: Ah.
B.Y. [suddenly, looking up questioningly]: Do you you think that was right of them to act that way?
Now, Allan, I put it to you: what can the therapist possibly respond that is both professional and that will absolutely preclude the possibility of B.Y. saying to her friends: "My therapist says it's OK to have a boyfriend"?
I think I hear you. My 2 cents worth -Maybe the therapist can answer – I hear where you are coming from and sort of understand how you are feeling , but I would appreciate it if you could tell me more , I want to get a better understanding of your concerns and perspective. The boyfriend is only one solution to the kids concerns.
About your parents decisions – I think it would help if we could first get a better understanding of their concerns and perspectives
This will help the kid see the problem from the eyes of the parent and understand the consistency of their decisions. – if one finds oneself in a situation I can trust you to be responsible , but until marriage it is best build friendships with girls
A solution would be to take into account the concerns of both parties . When the concerns of parents are addressed we are setting limits. Sometimes a solution would be to give a kid more autonomy in another area to compensate
About your parents decisions – I think it would help if we could first get a better understanding of their concerns and perspectives
This will help the kid see the problem from the eyes of the parent and understand the consistency of their decisions. – if one finds oneself in a situation I can trust you to be responsible , but until marriage it is best build friendships with girls
A solution would be to take into account the concerns of both parties . When the concerns of parents are addressed we are setting limits. Sometimes a solution would be to give a kid more autonomy in another area to compensate
